Olivia's Journey: How Medication Helped Silence Her Food Noise
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Georgie: [00:00:00] Olivia reached out to me because she wanted to share her experiences taking Semaglutide, a GLP one receptor agonist, a drug, and binge eating disorder. While I don't normally have guests on the podcast, once I heard a little bit about her, I knew her story would make a compelling and helpful episode because almost nobody is talking about GLP one drugs and binge eating disorder.

Of course, please remember that this is one individual's story, not representative of every person's experience. I'll pop back at the end of the interview with my thoughts on taking GLP one drugs for binge eating specifically, as well as a glance at the opposing views on this issue. Also, I'll mention where I think research and the pharmaceutical industry are going to head./ This is the breaking up with binge eating podcast, where every listen moves you one step closer to complete food freedom hosted by me, Georgie fear and my team at confident eaters. / So thank you so much for being willing to be on the show. Olivia, I've enjoyed chatting with you already and I think our listeners are gonna gain so much insight and understanding from hearing your experience as well as a lot of people are probably just curious, you know, we wanna know like, what's it really like?

Olivia: Yeah,

Georgie: pharmaceutical companies advertise to us, but like, what's it really like? So.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: Tell me a little bit about yourself and what you wanna talk about about medication and binge eating

Olivia: For sure. I'm 42. I have four kids and I live in Maine. I'm originally from England, as you can hear, but we have been in the states for 11 years.

I think. Just to give you an overview of, of the binge eating. I think it was something that started for me when I was about 19. And it wasn't, [00:02:00] it was like very infrequent and it was kind of baffling to me, but it wasn't frequent enough to be something that I really looked at. And then I think it was only, it's only really become a problem for me since I've had kids.

And I think that there are so many factors involved in that. A lot of it's just being tired, you know, like feelings of depleted. And then also I realized that for me personally, the, the reason that I binge eat is a way to deal with overwhelm. And I think having four kids, you kind of exist constantly.

Georgie: I bet. I bet. It sounds pretty overwhelming .

Olivia: And so I think for me, the binge eating was. It was a way, it was kind of an arena I created for myself. Like, you can lose control here, but everything else you'll maintain control of. And it, you know, obviously it's, it's a coping strategy, but it's a maladaptive one.

And I think I got to the point where I was like, this is, this is harming me. You know, this is not a good thing. And that's when I, I think I'd heard, you know, when all the GLP ones came into the public's awareness people were talking about losing weight and losing weight was like the thing that people were taking them for

Georgie: Sure.

Olivia: But then also there was so much talk that was kind of bubbling up about food noise. And I was like, well, this is exactly what drives me crazy. Like this is exactly what you know, the food noise that sort of builds and builds and becomes an urge to binge for me. And so I was, that's when I, my interest was peaked.

I was like, well, if. If it can deal with food noise, maybe there is, and this was before there had been any talk of it being used for binge eating. And so it wasn't ever talked about in relation to binge eating. So I started to think about it. I was like, if I could try this to see whether it would get rid of the food noise.

And so that's what I did basically. If I'm honest, I just told a lie because obviously it's not approved for binge eating.

Georgie: Right.

Olivia: I was, in terms of my [00:04:00] BMI, I was overweight, so I could go to, there are a lot of online pharmacies that you can, you can get the stuff from.

Georgie: Hmm.

Olivia: Some of them are sketchy and some of them are like reputable.

So I chose, in my, in my sketchy behavior, I chose the most reputable one I could find. And was honest and said that it was about weight loss, but that wasn't my primary reason for, for taking it.

Georgie: Sure. Just to stop you briefly. Most people who have binge eating disorder do have a higher body weight.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: And for a lot of people it's, it's two goals that they're both after.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: They'd like to lose weight and you know not binge eating.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: would be really desirable. Just because it's not approved for binge eating disorder does not mean that doctors can't prescribe it.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: For that, you know, doctors have their own decision making ability so they can prescribe things so-called off label.

Yeah. So, you know, there's nothing wrong with you know, being honest with your doctor. They still prescribe it to you if you don't want to go to an online pharmacy. But

Olivia: I think, to be honest, I will be honest. You know, like. What I'm hoping is that I've got to a point now where it's not about losing weight, it's about getting rid of the food noise, and my plan is to go to the doctor and say, look, I took this, it's helped me in this way.

I, I would like to tip going forward. I would like you to prescribe this to me as a maintenance out a maintenance dose. And just be above board about it.

Georgie: Yeah. I mean, it sounds like as well as everyone was going to hear how dramatically this changed your life.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: And it sounds like the sort of changes that you've experienced are amazing and positive and more than I would suspect happens just from simply losing weight.

I mean, like changing your body shape and size doesn't profoundly change a lot of people's existence as much as

Olivia: No. And I would've taken it, I mean, the weight loss was, was a bonus, but I would've taken it for what it's done for my mental, the, the amount of space I have in my brain in a heartbeat.

Like that's and I think. One of the things I was thinking about was [00:06:00] that it's, as you said, like with people who have been eating disorder, they often do have a higher body weight and I think that there, that, that's why these like GLP ones sort of hit a sweet spot because there are those two things that exist side by side.

I dunno what. Clinically what it would do for someone who had another eating disorder who didn't have weight to lose. Because I think doctors might be much less likely to prescribe them something if they're already underweight or something. But as I said, that's not something I know anything about.

Georgie: Right. Yeah, I mean, I would reserve predictions about that on my own behalf just until more research comes out. Mm-hmm. You know, certainly I don't think it would be helpful for people with restrictive eating disorders, but perhaps people whose you know, disordered symptoms come out as more like there are types of disordered eating, bulimia being one of them, but lots of other sort of unspecified, not labeled types of disordered eating where people binge or where people lose control over food or obsess about it and have that, you know, food noise.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: And so I think, you know, when doctors know more about how this works and how it impacts patients and when we can talk about this stuff without shame, just like these are the symptoms

Olivia: mm-hmm.

Georgie: This is what I'm experiencing.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: That enables, you know, the medical world to work at its best to help us with those symptoms. But you're right, it might be. Right. For some people and not right for some other people.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: I have had some people I've worked with who were abstinent from alcohol and felt that the GLP ones aided them

Olivia: mm-hmm.

Georgie: In maintaining their sobriety. So yeah. I do think it is, it is beneficial for. Many times coexisting diagnoses, which is most people, few people have like one diagnosis going on.

Olivia: Yeah, for sure.

Georgie: Did you immediately want to try these or did you have some reservations, like, I don't know, concerns or hesitations?

Olivia: I did. I did. And I remember when, you know, like one of PIC came out and you know, like it was, [00:08:00] people were saying how it's, you know, it's under researched. We don't know like what the long term effects of it. You know, there's you, you will lose muscle mass. That's, you know, there were lots of reasons that people were kind of unsure about it. And I did worry about those things. I worried about like muscle loss and things like that. But I also, the more I thought about those, like I think I can offset those things if I'm sensible about it. And the other risks. I got to the point where I was, I was felt so crazy, you know, like felt, felt so crazy around food that that was negatively impacting my life more than I was worried about other health outcomes.

None of them were like, I don't know, you know, like when you see those adverts on TV and it's like may result in sudden death or whatever it is. Like there were none that was so alarming to me. That I thought, no, this is especially, and I've got four kids. I can't be stupid about these things. But it was it on balance. It was like, I, I need to deal with this in order to live a, a kind of more stable life.

Georgie: I like that. I think it's important for everybody listening to think about like, your quality of life is a really important aspect for sure of, you know, how you're making these decisions and if something's going to improve your quality of life.

I think we should put a lot of weight on that. I think a lot of people don't necessarily give enough emphasis or priority on just happiness and relationships.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: I know firsthand like how disordered eating and, you know, weight obsessions can completely interfere with people's relationships and happiness and

Olivia: mm-hmm.

Georgie: Ability to fulfill their dreams and their jobs.

Olivia: Yes.

Georgie: You know, make the best of the potential that they have.

Olivia: Totally. And do you know I did, I did have that thought. I was like, do you know what, if I was depressed and, and if I was suffering from like a depression that was co like impacting my life to the degree that this is, I wouldn't think twice about taking medication [00:10:00] for that.

And so I think I did have that thought. Like anything else, any other medical condition I had, if I, you know, had a, a wound or something, I was like, I would get help for it. So this just was, I was like, get help. Don't be silly. It did.

Georgie: Yeah. Great. So when you started it

Olivia: mm-hmm.

Georgie: How long ago was this for you that you started?

Olivia: So I started in January.

Georgie: Okay.

Olivia: And they, there's like a protocol, so they start you off on a low dose.

Georgie: Mm-hmm.

Olivia: And then they build you up to the highest dose, which I think is like considered the weight loss phase. And then after that it's unclear what happens after that, whether it's. You could stop taking it or, you know, like the idea of having a maintenance days where you take it twice a week, or sorry, every two weeks rather than every week. And like, I think that's where I'm heading soon, but I did start to answer your question in January

Georgie: And we are recording this in July, so yeah. So half a year.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: Do you recall the first thing you noticed and was it the same day that you took the medication or was it after?

Olivia: No, I think it took, I think it took a few weeks. I think I was, I expected it to be immediate for some, I didn't know where I got that from, but I expected it to be immediate and it wasn't. And what I started noticing is I love food. Like there's a, it's a big part of my life and like I would always be thinking about like what, what I was going to eat next or what I was going to eat the next day. And I realized one day that. That just wasn't front of mind anymore because like, I'm going to eat, but you know, when I'm going to eat and what I'm going to eat just wasn't a priority. Like it wasn't taking up space in my head.

Georgie: And was that a joyful realization or was it like, oh, that's a bit concerning?

Olivia: It was a massive relief, I think because, because it had always been, if, you know, if I'm honest, it, it had become an obsession, you know, it'd been an obsession for a really long time. I remember when I emailed you about this, like the joke that I made was that like I would come to your house and you would offer me a piece of cake and I'd be like a piece of cake. That's nice. Yeah. I'll have the piece of cake [00:12:00] and we'd, you know, eat the cake and have a chat. And the whole time I'd be talking to you, I'd be like, how can I eat the rest of the cake?

Georgie: How can we get her to leave room?

Olivia: Exactly. And I think that kind of urgency, as you said, that was, I think the word that you used, that urgency. Just evaporated.

Georgie: Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah, I can imagine experiencing that relief of like, wow, I've had this, you know, all of my waking hours for decades now, and then all of a sudden it like, it's like an ease of just knowing that food will be there.

Olivia: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think it's, you know, having lived with binge eating disorder, the way I would describe it to people who don't have it is like, it feels like you are, you live at the, you know, at the point of a dam that's about to burst.

Like you're constantly kind of holding this pressure that's like this dam could burst and you know, you have varying degrees of control over whether it bursts or not, and when and how. And I think that it's always a, it is a threat, you know, it's a, a constant threat in the background, and I think that having removed that pressure.

Is is, you know, is, is such a relief kind of in real time, but then also knowing that what, you know, like I can think about going out for dinner with someone next week and it's not gonna be like, oh God, you know, like, what's going to happen? And so I think it's that peace of mind of like now, but also going forward, it's like you just trust that you'll do what your body need needs you to do.

And I think for me, that's a big thing, you know, like. When people talk about intuitive eating, it's like you trust that your body will ask you when and what it wants. You know, like what, what you should be eating. And I think that that's what I've had is that you get to that point where you just trust that you are gonna do what your body needs you to do.

Georgie: Amazing. And I, I read a lot about brain research and appetite and hunger regulation. I've been in this space for [00:14:00] decades. And, you know, over and over again, we come across imaging studies where they will, or, and not, not always imaging, but sometimes imaging studies where they'll, they'll take people and they'll realize some sort of difference between the fed state and the fasted state.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: So, for example, like pain sensitivity, we even feel pain much more acutely when we're fasted, when we haven't eaten in several hours. I mean the same increase in pain if we haven't slept well.

Olivia: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's definitely a rawness, isn't it?

Georgie: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, they've done research including judges who are making decisions about people who've committed crimes, or I think it was parole boards, you know, deciding whether do you grant parole or not grant parole to somebody who's asking something of you.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: And before lunch, the outcomes are more usually different

Olivia: that I don't wanna be before lunch.

Georgie: It's a higher, you don't No, it's, it's a higher record, like a higher proportion of denials.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: For the people that are before lunch compared to the people that are just after lunch. 'cause when we're fed, we tend to be more benevolent. We're more patient or more kind.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: And so the, these medications, if what they're doing to drastically oversimplify it is give our brains a signal that we have abundant food on board. The ramifications of that could be so massive. We might be kinder people.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: We might be more settled, we might be more patient.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: That could lead to improvements in our relationships and you know, potentially less pain. Potentially.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: All sorts of, of other,

Olivia: I've wondered that, you know, because. I mentioned that like my binge binge eating was always a, like a, a reaction to the threat of overwhelm. And I think I would kind of like literally swallow my stress.

And I, I, I'd have wondered like, so where's it coming out then if it's not, like, if you're not managing with the food and I, I keep meaning to ask my, my family if they think I've been like, [00:16:00] grumpy. You know, like, is it coming out? Do you know what I mean?

Georgie: Yeah. Yeah.

Olivia: And that's, I mean, no one said anything, so I'm assuming not, but I, you, you just wonder like. So you're dealing with this in the real world now rather than like eating your feelings. And I think that that, you know, I can, it can only be a good thing.

Georgie: Yeah. So previously you can recognize in an overwhelmed situation or day, it's just been all of the things going on and lots of demands on you. You are likely to end up binge eating.

Olivia: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Georgie: If that happens today, what are you likely to do?

Olivia: That's what I can't figure out. Like nothing's filled its place. You know, like I haven't taken up any, anything else? Like nothing. I was surprised because I assumed that there would be something else that was. Was another coping strategy, but I haven't, and I don't know whether, you know, like a lot of the overwhelm, you know, if you're looking at it from a kind of higher perspective, a lot of the overwhelm was stress about eating. Do you know what I mean? And so that sort of became its own spiral.

Georgie: Yeah. So the pressure to try and constrain your eating. Leads to more water behind the dam.

Olivia: Yeah, exactly.

Georgie: Do you think there's been any mental or emotional effects on like your mood or your energy level?

Olivia: No, I don't think so. I

Georgie: Your kids are just as overwhelming as they were before

Olivia: they, they're a circus. Yeah, they are. I don't think, no, I haven't, I haven't felt, I haven't felt like irritable, you know, I haven't felt kind of as though I've been extra irritable. I haven't it like a couple of times I felt tired, but then I do have four kids. So you're like, well, was it, you know, chicken or egg? I don't know. But not certainly nothing that I've noticed or that's made me ever question whether it's worth taking the medication.

Georgie: Great. So we talked about some of the surprises that [00:18:00] you had.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: Taking this medication, and I wonder if some of these are things that would not have been so surprising or that you could have prepared for them or expected them if there were more of these conversations going on with more people talking about what happens when you take these medications.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: And how do they impact you? And perhaps it hasn't been researched, so it's not out there, but

Olivia: yeah.

Georgie: You've mentioned even like friend to friend or just colloquially, people tend to not talk about medications that they're taking. Do you feel like that's the same with all medications or do you think it's sort of unique to this one?

Olivia: I think this one is, is controversial and I think it's completely unnecessary because you know, there's all that kind of chat about. Whether when, when someone's taken semaglutide and lost weight, like do they, have they done it the right way? Have they cheated? You know, like it's a kind of, a lot of it's framed as they've cheated.

They haven't gone down the diet and exercise route, and it's kind of invalidates that, the achievement that they feel. I don't feel that at all. Like I, that's, I don't feel. It's any reason not to be honest about it. And I, and I think I'm very honest about it. 'cause I think the more people talk about it, the more people know about it and that can only be a good thing.

Georgie: Right. People wouldn't say that, oh, if you wear contact lenses you're cheating. 'cause you should try harder to improve your vision.

Olivia: Yeah, but also, I mean, if you look at. If you look at how obesity, like the hammering that obesity takes in the media and in, in our culture more widely, it's, it seems very cruel to me that like, take this hammering, but then take another hammering if you choose to do something about it. You know, like it's, you can't have it both ways.

Georgie: Yeah, yeah. I completely understand. And. The world is moving along, I think, in terms of recognizing and trying to reduce [00:20:00] stigmas and cruelty. But yeah, I do feel like body size may be, you know, one of the last, like real holdouts.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: There's still more, I mean, obviously more of it than we'd like, but an amount that still makes people feel prejudiced and

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: Counted against and discriminated against, and, yeah. Not able to be their full selves.

Olivia: Mm-hmm. I think that's, for me, that's, you know, something that I've always been aware of and I was never, I was never overweight that you would, I don't think people would've described me as overweight. I was like, over, like, technically, you know, BMI wise, I was overweight, but I don't, I've never lived in a, in a body that people have like made comments on, you know?

But I've seen en enough people at work around me who are fat phobic, who make moral judgments based on the size of someone's body. And I think for me, that's, that's such a sad thing. You know, like when you look at all the, the kind of, the, the sort of factors that are stacked against people who are in bigger bodies anyway.

And then you add in the fact that the, the rest of the world, you know, perceives them as lacking in all these ways. And I think if this is something that can help people escape that or like help themselves out of it, then it's, I'm all for it.

Georgie: Yeah, absolutely. You never know somebody's story or life or personality.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: Until you actually get to know them.

Olivia: Exactly. Yeah.

Georgie: How have the responses been, you know, since you've chosen, like, it'd be great, I'm gonna talk about this. Like it or not, here's the real me.

Olivia: You know, it's so funny because, so we moved here in January, so we moved here just as I started taking the medication, so anyone who knows me in Maine doesn't know me from before, so I don't know whether they've noticed that I've lost weight which is obviously, that's the first thing that people would see before, you know, if they said anything, I'd be honest about it.

I've talked to a couple of people who have immediately said. They [00:22:00] can absolutely relate to, you know, like what I'd said about binge eating myself. And that's been, that's been every single time I've brought it up. That's been the response I've had is like, oh, I can, I can, you know, I can, they, they sort of eyes light up that it's, you know, like a, a possible thing that could help.

But I haven't, I haven't talked to enough people day to day, if you see what I mean. I we're going back to England next week actually, and I wouldn't be surprised. If people say something, you know, like I, I think I've lost about 15 kilos, which I think is like, is a noticeable amount of weight.

Georgie: Yeah. A lot.

Olivia: And so I think people would, people will notice, my mom noticed. But my mom is hilariously old school. She was a model when, when she was younger, and so she, like, she very much equates body size with, you know, like your value as a woman. Mm-hmm. And my brother and I always joke that she's prouder of my weight loss than she's about any of my, like, other achievements in life.

Georgie: Ouch. Yeah. That one stings.

Olivia: That, that's a conversation that we've had. But I've tried to kind of, I've tried to explain to her that it wasn't about losing the weight for me, it was much more about like mental health. And trying to work on that rather than my body.

Georgie: Absolutely.

Olivia: But I'll let you know. I'll, I'll let you know what their reactions are.

Georgie: Yeah. I hope they're all positive and supportive. I really do. Like how can anybody react negatively to somebody saying, I'm feeling so much better regardless of how you got there.

Olivia: I think it's because. Because it's seen as, you know, like losing weight is seen as something that you, you need to put the work in to do. And I think that a lot of people consider taking medications as a shortcut, and it's like, no, in order to get the results you need to earn them, you need to, you know, there needs to be blood, sweat, and tears involved. So I think that's where the kind of controversy comes, or that's where the people's, that's where you hurt people's feelings with it.

Georgie: Hmm. They make it sound like like it's easy.

Olivia: Yeah. Like you've taken the, taken the easy way out.

Georgie: Right, right. And I talk to a lot of people with difficulty with their eating and [00:24:00] I think it causes a lot more difficulty to people than actual higher body weight, you know?

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: I think disordered eating and the, the emotions and the experience to go along with that. People who you know, I haven't experienced it or known somebody intimately who has it's

Olivia: mm-hmm.

Georgie: It's probably easy to underestimate.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: But there's nothing easy about

Olivia: no!

Georgie: Being in a larger body or having, you know, a mental health condition or an eating disorder, like nothing. This is not an easy road to anything.

Olivia: No, absolutely. And I think, you know, like to go back to what you said about what will people's reactions be? I'm kind of struggling to think that because it is not something that I talked about, like struggling with eating was not something that I talked about. As I said, because I think for a lot of the time as a woman, you, the, your relationship to food is considered sort of something that's beneath consideration.

It's not considered interesting or something that's polite to talk about. Do you know what I mean? So I think. I haven't told a lot of people about binge eating like these days, as I said, because I've, I, I don't no longer feel shame about it. Like it's not something I'm hiding.

It's just not something that like wider circles in my life of people are aware of.

Georgie: Yeah. And that makes sense. It is a more personal topic.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: I know what the people that are sort of in my inner circle, I'm more comfortable talking about things when they've like, when I've gotten past them a bit.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: For, for example, like when my la my dog passed away last year, I was having a very hard time like even opening my mouth about it. Like I told people what happened, but I couldn't really say anymore about it because it was so painful. And like

Olivia: yeah,

Georgie: in the months that happened afterward, I was, as I was able to heal and like see how my life would move forward,

Olivia: yeah,

Georgie: it was more easy and more possible to talk about.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: To talk about.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: And I think [00:26:00] for a lot of people with food issues, like I have much easier time talking about past food issues that like 15, 20 years ago.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: And recognizing like, wow, my stress level now is so much less than I'm not having these things.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: So I think for a lot of people it's easier to talk about things once you're having some success. Once you're having some progress. Once you're starting to feel better.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: And it can be a nice way to open up. For example, if I have, like I have a, one of the issues in my life right now is my relationship with exercise and training. You know, I've been very active for my most of my life, and in the last few years I've been competitive.

But the competition started to become so stressful that earlier this year I had like a really bad burnout and I just stepped back from competition and from all of it. And so I'm still very much in the middle of this process of trying to figure out what level of activity am I doing.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: That really and truly is because I enjoy it, versus some chronic attempt to build self-esteem through athletic achievement. And it's very hard to tease those apart. Yeah, I, I get what you're saying. Like there are people that we can talk about this with and certain people where it's like, no, you haven't earned the right. Like, I'm not gonna go tell the check out person at the grocery store as lovely as they are, you know, it's sort of the sort of people where you really answer the question, how are you?

Olivia: Yeah. Uhhuh and I, and I think it's, it's so interesting. I totally, I agree with what you said about, you know, I think when, when the ground beneath you is still shifting, you know, like it's very difficult to like put a foot down and move forward. And I think, you know, like that's of the distance from whatever it was really helps.

And I think again, like that's something that this medication has been invaluable for me with is that kind of having, you know, the break that it's given me, like the removal of the food noise has given me time for other things to kind of surface and make themselves apparent. [00:28:00] And then again, that's it started to feel as though I can like put my foot down and there's a kind of a sense of traction, which I just, with that repeated binging before, it kind of, it destabilizes you, you know, like it's, and I think that that, that for me was so much part of the, the kind of the sadness of it, you know? And I think.

I dunno whether other people would, would relate to this, but for me, binge eating, it's almost like it has, it has a, a force, a bit like gravity or something and you know, like you will have a binge and then the next day the binge that you just had is exuding this like strong force. So the next day it feels much more like, it's much more likely that you'll binge again.

Georgie: Yes.

Olivia: Like the closer they are together. And I think that taking this medication has taken, taken that power out of it. You know, like I'm no longer binging. And the further I move away from it, the more I can look back on it and start to examine it in a way that I just couldn't when I was close to it.

Georgie: That's wonderful. Does it give you a little more compassion for what you've been through?

Olivia: Yeah, definitely, definitely. When I look at sort of what I was trying to manage, the sort of overwhelm that I was trying to contain with binge eating. And like just using the binge eating as that kind of coping strategy.

When you take out the binge eating piece, you can look at like what was going on in your life at the time that was giving rise to the overwhelm. Whereas, you know, like that's not something you can look at when you're still worried that you're gonna binge eat all the time.

Georgie: Of course, yeah. You told me a couple of specific examples in an email. Can you tell me a little bit about granola?

Olivia: Definitely. So granola was something that I could not have in my house because if I had, you know, some granola, I would eat all of it like that. It was gone like it was. And, you know, granola's not something that you want to eat too much of 'cause it's so, you know, so sweet and so kind of gravelly. [00:30:00] It doesn't, it doesn't feel good in your body. So, you know, like I just stopped buying it and I hadn't had it for a really long time. And there's a brand called Michelle's Granola, which is so delicious. And I just remembered it the other day. I was like, oh my goodness, I wonder if I can get that here.

And I found a shop that had it. I bought a packet of it and I've had like a handful, like an appropriate amount, a serving size of granola for breakfast, like three or four times this week. And I've eaten it and I haven't, it hasn't, I haven't put it back in the cupboard and heard it speaking to me all day. Do you know? It's like.

Georgie: Amazing.

Olivia: Granola time is finished. Get on with your day. And that's like unprecedented for me.

Georgie: Amazing. I think that's a lot of people's goal and dream.

Olivia: Yeah, definitely.

Georgie: Be able to,

Olivia: definitely

Georgie: Have a package of cookies or granola in the house. And not be struggling with it.

Olivia: Yeah. Not hear them calling to you all day. I think. Yeah, just kind of wearing you down. That was always a goal for me, but it was not something I ever got close to.

Georgie: And what about alcohol? Would you say you ever had a trouble with drinking too much alcohol or.

Olivia: No, I mean, I did, I did and do drink and I, I didn't have a relationship with alcohol in either direction. Like I could take it or leave it. I would often drink too much, just 'cause it was fun, you know, like that's what I did. And I, my body would allow me to drink too much. And you know, like, I think the effects of the alcohol, you know, what it's like. You have a drink and it's fine. And then you have two drinks and they're like, maybe I'll just have another one.

And then you, you know, it becomes like too much.

Georgie: Right?

Olivia: Whereas, you know what I said about how this medication really lets your body do the talking rather than whatever is in your brain that's overriding these things. So I'll have a drink and my body's like, that's it. You don't need or want anymore.

It's not about needing, it's wanting. You don't want anymore. So I will have a drink and that's it. Done. It's not a decision, you know? Whereas before, if I was, you know, like I'd go out and I'm like, you're gonna have one drink and one drink would turn into four or five drinks or whatever. It's not a [00:32:00] decision. It's not, it's not a brain decision, it's a body decision.

Georgie: Yeah. So it just sort of happens naturally.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: Without a lot of effort.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: Right.

Olivia: No effort at all.

Georgie: I mean, that sounds, I think, to a lot of people, like, wow, this is magical. I'm gonna go out and see about these drugs.

Olivia: Yeah. But I do wonder with the experience that I've had on this drug, what, and there are people, as I said, who have, you know, substance use issues and you know, like the kind of overlap between that and binge eating. It did make me wonder, given how successful it was, the extent to which, you know, like a lot of people think that depression is, is a kind of some kind of imbalance in your brain. So you take antidepressants and it just helps you rebalance the things and, and sort of move forward and do what you need to do in life.

It does make me wonder whether. You know, like binge eating and substance abuse issues is just a kind of a miswiring and this is the missing piece. You know, like this is the piece that those people like me needed in order to just as I said, for the ground underneath them to be solid so that you can move forward and start to understand it objectively.

Georgie: Yeah, and you told me about some progress, like with cognitive behavioral therapy.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: Which is, you know, always strongly recommended for people with binge eating disorder.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think your experience has been that you couldn't really get a foothold with routinely practicing the cognitive behavioral therapy while you were in the thick of these really strong impulses to binge.

Olivia: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Georgie: And so now, has it felt a little more accessible? Have you tried, you know,

Olivia: I haven't tried it, but it's my plan. I think, as you said, like the binge eating always felt like it was. I was going to override everything else. Like it was, it would undermine or override whatever else I was doing.

Whereas now with the kind of the mental space that I have and the peace, I can see why I would make progress with things like CBT in a way that I just wasn't able to. But I just, I just couldn't get [00:34:00] there, you know? I couldn't, yeah. I just didn't have the mental space. It was the, the binge eating was taking up too much of it.

Georgie: Yeah. Yeah, that's completely understandable. And it makes me wonder about people who are suffering from binge eating disorder at the same time as they're suffering from depression and anxiety.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: To other conditions which are benefited by CBT. And if the distress and the behavior of the binges is taking up so much time and energy and then leaving behind this aftermath of shame that it's

Olivia: mm-hmm.

Georgie: Really getting in the way of doing the CBT practice. Yeah. That if we can, if somebody's able to, you know, use any method to get a break from the binging

Olivia: Yeah. That, that could enable them to also do things that would better support

Georgie: mm-hmm.

Olivia: Their other mental health needs. I definitely think it should be both things. I think if the GLP ones have to come first, then I think that's great. I dunno. In England you have this expression, belt and braces, you know, like where you up your belt and then you have your braces like to keep your trousers up. You've got two things helping you.

Georgie: Oh, like suspenders?

Olivia: Suspenders, yeah.

Georgie: Yes.

Olivia: That's like belt and suspenders. I think it should be like a belt and braces approach. I think if this is it, if this is the first thing that happens and that's great. You know, like do what you need to do on that. But I think going forward. As I said, I would imagine, if possible, that this is something that I'm gonna be taking for a really long time, but if that doesn't happen, I don't know what would happen to the binge.

Like is the binge, I would assume the binge eating will just return in the same way that it was because I haven't dealt with, you know, I haven't taken steps to do the CBT or the kind of processing of whatever it was. You know, they overwhelm and you know, like what led to those maladaptive strategies. So all that stuff's still there just sitting in the wings.

Georgie: Mm-hmm.

Olivia: And I think it's naive to think that you can just take these drugs and not still have to do, you know, put the effort in to look at those things and, and make plans and strategies for, you know, any recurrence of [00:36:00] those things.

Georgie: Yeah, I'm interested in what research tells us in coming years about the non-weight outcomes of GLP one receptor agonists and how these outcomes respond if somebody does not continue the medication forever. For weight loss, it does really seem that for most people, if we're only looking at as weight as an outcome. That if people stop the medication, their weight tends to return.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: But who knows? With behaviors, with addictions.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: Binge eating. We don't know. Like it, I think it's certainly possible that people might learn all of these other coping mechanisms and ways to handle their feelings and

Olivia: mm-hmm.

Georgie: Have a very realistic shot of not having those behaviors come back. But

Olivia: that's what I wondered, you know, like, and I think that's what I think the thing that I've been so grateful for through all of this is that kind of being able to, to shelve those things for a while and then like, look at what's going on in my life. And things have just felt so much more like predictable and stable, are the words I should be using. And I think with that kind of the, the, the potential or the, the possibility of things being stable and predictable, I feel as though I'm kind of strengthening myself in a way. And so I have wondered, you know, like if I were to take them now, have the, has, has the progress that I've made without the binge eating, is, would that be enough to kind of see me through not taking them?

But I do, I do still think there's definitely scope for CBT and all the, all those things should still be happening. I don't think this is like a one, one solution thing. But I think it's that kind of, when you create space, you allow, it feels like I've allowed myself healing space, taking away the food noise, and, and I think that that strength that's built up, I do wonder whether that would put me in good stead in future for tapering the dose or whatever it is that I need to do.

Georgie: Yeah. Yeah. And [00:38:00] I can see different people having different responses. Like some people take antidepressant medications just to get through a difficult phase, and then they discontinue them.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: And then other people feel like they need them for lifelong management, so, you know.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: There may not be one.

Olivia: Yeah, absolutely.

Georgie: Course.

Olivia: Whatever works.

Georgie: So I'd love to hear a little more about. How you are redefining yourself

Olivia: Uhhuh,

Georgie: because the longest time, as you said, like so much of your life was just sucked away into the food and the stress over eating.

Olivia: Do you know what?

Georgie: Where do you wanna go now?

Olivia: I think, I don't know. I'm very happy just as I am. I think what has been so fascinating to me is like what life looks like without food noise.

Georgie: Mm-hmm.

Olivia: And, and again, I kind of want to say like, as a normal person, like what food looks like as someone who just eats and then is done with eating, that food isn't constantly shouting at you, which is how it felt to me.

Georgie: Yeah.

Olivia: And like just moving through the world. Like going to, going to a, a kid's party where there's food on the table that was like, it wasn't stressful to me, but the table would be shouting very loudly all through the party. And so just moving through the world and the absence of all that, kind of the chaos that came with the food is strangely joyful. I don't think I want anything else other than the absence of, of all that, you know, like not have to be paying attention to that stuff.

Georgie: Yeah. So does your attention just sort of naturally float around to

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: In that example, the other people at the party and watching the kids and enjoying the afternoon.

Olivia: Yeah. It just, you can, you can focus, like I feel as though I can like my attention if I'm having a conversation with someone, like I went out for dinner with some friends last night ate my food, and then it wasn't like, are we gonna have to dessert? Like it's not kind of. You know, in the back of your head, what's next? What's next? And [00:40:00] it's, it's, it's really peaceful and I don't think I understood how peaceful it was 'cause I don't think I realized how unpeaceful it, it had got.

Georgie: Right.

Olivia: But I did have a sense, like I knew I was unhappy with it, which is why I took, why I started to take them. But I didn't realize how unhappy I had been with it.

Georgie: Wow. Wow. That's so amazing. That's so amazing.

Olivia: It really does feel amazing. And I, I don't want to use the word life changing too much, but it really has been life changing.

Georgie: And like sort of life giving and

Olivia: yeah.

Georgie: You're able to be more present in every moment of your life.

Olivia: Yeah, definitely. It's just there's so much time and space that is, is available to me now that I didn't have before.

Georgie: So if there's somebody out there who has been really hesitant to try these, would you recommend that they try them? Would you recommend something else?

Olivia: I don't know. I mean, I've done, before I started taking them, I know like a lot of, a lot of kind of like wellness companies jumped on the bandwagon of like, take some cilium husk or take our, you know, want, do you know what I mean? Like, there was all this, this is nature's Ozempic. And I think all of those things have been, but it's mainly just fiber. Like it's, it's not, it's not the same. So I did, I looked at those things. But for me, assuming the person didn't have any kind of issues that would be exacerbated by this. And I know like for a lot of people, for a lot of people they don't work. Not, I say say a lot of people, but there are people they don't, they just don't work for.

Georgie: Mm-hmm.

Olivia: And there are people who have bad side effects that you can have a lot of gi distress for some people. But I would say sound like I'm being paid by the, paid by the company. But I would say take them like it has been, it's been really, really life changing for me. For sure.

Georgie: And it sounds like I don't, I don't think you're coming across like a spokesperson who's saying at least like, don't discount them.

Olivia: Yeah, don't discount them. And I think probably the kind of strongest [00:42:00] pushback I imagined pushback I felt was from the conversations I imagined having with people when I said that I was taking this. You know, like for binge eating because you know, like a lot of it was, oh, you know, it's not tested for this, it's not, you know, like it's not recommended for this.

All those things. And I, it was definitely a bit of, on my part, a bit of a renegade decision to just go for it because, you know, like my mother and my husband both would've said like this, you know, like, probably don't do this. It's not. I think for, maybe for them, I do think they also, I don't think they realized how bad it was making me feel. So had I been really honest about like the amount of space this is taking up in my life, they might have been a bit more forgiving and thanking.

Georgie: Sure. It's hard to communicate though when you're not even aware of yourself.

Olivia: Yeah, exactly.

Georgie: Any last words that you'd wanna share with people about your story or your thoughts?

Olivia: Probably the thing that I would say is that, you know, because this is not something that we talk about often, I don't think that we allow ourselves to acknowledge that the huge role that it can play in your life. And I think that we kind of suppress the weight that that carries in your life.

And that's, I don't mean that as a, to be a pun, but you know, like we, we kind of try to avoid, we sort of live our lives around this thing and we try not to acknowledge it or try not to be honest about it. And I think that despite that, and despite the work that's involved in that, you do have a sense like, you know, how much effort is involved in managing binge eating.

And I, the one thing that I'd say is that having been on this medication and having got to this point now, it's only now that I can see the enormity of that, like the enormity of the work that's involved in sort of managing that for yourself and. The compassion as you. I think that you used the word compassion, like do you have compassion for yourself?

It's like all of a sudden you feel vindicated. 'cause you [00:44:00] were like, that was a massive bloody deal. Like that was a huge thing that I was carrying around with me that I was not allowing myself to be like, this is a big deal. You know? Like it was just,

Georgie: yeah.

Olivia: You know, it's something that I would, would try to dismiss. And so I think the last thing I'd say is people will be really, really relieved and I think a little bit sad for themselves if they were to take this medicine and then look back on their lives before and be like, you know, that was a lot to carry around. That was a lot.

Georgie: Yeah.

Olivia: Yeah, so I think it's that kind of in hindsight, trusting when you feel that this is a big thing. In your life that is impacting your quality of life, then you need to trust yourself. Because if that's how you feel that it's true,

Georgie: it is a big thing and you deserve a shot in whatever supports you need.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: Shot, no pun intended. Ha. There I go again. As soon as it came outta my mouth, I was like, damn it, Georgie.

Olivia: Oh, there it is.

Georgie: It's like we all deserve to use all the supports available.

Olivia: Yeah,

Georgie: I don't think we ever have too much support. I figure like if somebody is like, oh, I benefit from therapy and I benefit from nutrition counseling and I benefit from medication. Yes, yes, yes and, and yes. We don't only need to do one thing.

Olivia: Do what you need to do. Yeah, absolutely. That's the thing, you know, if, if there's something that can help you move, move on from this, choose the route that's gonna free up a big chunk of your life. You know, like, don't feel bad about getting the help for it. Like it's great.

Georgie: Yeah. Well, kudos to you for helping yourself and, you know, honoring your own experience enough to go on your own even, you know, knowing that you didn't at that moment have the support of the closest people in your life and decide I'm going for it.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

Georgie: And I'm really glad that you're speaking out about it now, so that people can hear from somebody who's like. There's no better authority on what it's like than somebody who's in it at the moment.

Olivia: Yeah.

Georgie: Thank you so much.

Olivia: Well, I hope there are other people out there who, who go on to have the same experiences as I have because it's, it's, you know, I, I would be very happy for many, many people to go through this.

Georgie: Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me [00:46:00] today. I really appreciate it.

Olivia: You are welcome. Very nice to talk to you. Thank you for having me.

Georgie: Anybody that wants to send a follow up question I can send your messages along to Olivia. And just thanks to everybody for joining us today. Remember, you're not alone on this journey, no matter how personal it feels. You've got me on your side, Christina on your side, Mary Claire on your side, and Olivia on your side.

Olivia: Indeed.

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Olivia: As I said at the beginning of today's episode, news headlines, marketing campaigns, and insurance coverage of GLP one receptor agonists have been almost exclusively for weight loss and for diabetes. But GLP one drugs have been studied for binge eating disorder and emotional eating, and the findings have been promising.

As of this recording, which is taking place in September, 2025, there haven't been published large scale clinical trials for GLP one Drugs and Binge eating disorder, but there have been some small studies which have shown favorable results. Semaglutide, the same drug found in Wegovy, Ozempic, and Rybelsus has been shown to reduce binge eating symptoms more than Lisdexamfetamine and Topiramate which are the two drugs that are most commonly used for binge eating disorder.

Those two drugs are sold as Vyvanse and Topamax, so you may have heard them called those names. Lisdexamfetamine is the only FDA approved drug for binge eating disorder, and Topiramate is just frequently prescribed off-label. Interestingly, combining semaglutide with either of these drugs appears to be less effective than simply using semaglutide alone.

Now it's very interesting to see Semaglutide compared to these drugs because if it comes out that semaglutide is more effective than these other two drugs, that could have a lot of impact for not only the pharmaceutical industry, but also for the [00:48:00] people who have tried taking drugs before, whether or not they found them helpful.

So I think it's great to have another candidate for something that could provide a meaningful benefit. A 2020 paper reported that dulaglutide, that's a drug known as Trulicity, also reduced binge eating score in type two diabetic patients. Now, Trulicity or Dulaglutide is also a GLP one receptor agonist, so it uses the same pathway as semaglutide.

Dulaglutide is only approved for treating type two diabetes. But it may be a good treatment option to consider because many people who have binge eating disorder also have diabetes. Liraglutide is another GLP receptor agonist, and that may be helpful in reducing binge eating episodes, but it's really tough to say because the studies to date have been quite small.

Another thing worth considering is antidepressant medications. These can also be effective in treating binge eating disorder. A meta-analysis of 16 randomized controlled trials published in 2024 found that antidepressant medications were more effective than placebo for reducing binge eating symptoms.

Consider that 73.8% of patients with binge eating disorder have at least one additional psychiatric disorder at some point in their lives. And major depressive disorder is the most common. About half of the people who are treated for binge eating disorder also have major depression, if not at the same time, maybe at another point in their lives.

So antidepressants may hold promise for treating both the mood disorder as well as the eating disorder. It's important to me to look at both sides of an issue, including this one. And there are some eating disorder experts and medical doctors who do not think GLP one receptor agonists should be used in people with BED or other eating disorders.[00:50:00]

The rationale is that dampening the body's signals to eat could lead to an exacerbation of unhealthy food behaviors. After all, placing an over importance on weight and shape is a symptom of disordered eating, and some individuals may find these drugs enable them to restrict, fast, or undereat in ways that drastically harm their health.

In the end, the decision to use pharmacotherapy and which drug option is best, rests with the patient and their care providers. Because as providers, we're caring for whole people. We have to take into account a person's current relationship with their eating disorder, their nutritional status, their coexisting diagnoses, and the side effect profiles and risks of each option.

I hope that we will see more research into semaglutide, tirzepatide, the newer GLP one drugs specifically for use in treating binge eating disorder because they might work better than the existing treatments and help millions of people. And that's where I think the pharmaceutical companies will go. At the same time, for individuals with anorexia, bulimia, or other eating disorders, these drugs could make dangerous disorders even more deadly- a prospect no one wants to encounter. Ongoing monitoring is going to be crucial for anyone who either has an eating disorder, has a history of an eating disorder, or is at risk for one. That's why it's a little frightening that Google serves me. Plenty of ads for online, no blood work required GLP one prescriptions.

If you want to know more about your medication options, the best thing you can do is speak with your doctor and have an honest discussion. Getting prescription medications online may not involve as thorough of an assessment of you and your complete health history, as well as your risk factors. Thank you so [00:52:00] much for listening.

If you need some support, reach out to me at georgiefear@gmail.com and if you want to give support, a podcast review or rating would be a lovely way to do that. See you next time.